Panel: “Tools and Actions for improving Turkish-European Cultural Relations Within the Context of National Foreign Cultural Agencies, NGO’s, Cultural Networks and Artistic Activities”
Moderator: Mahir NAMUR- President of the European Cultural Association, Turkey
Bernard FAIVRE D’ARCIER- Art Supervisor, former Director of the Avignon Festival, France
Nelson FERNANDEZ- Visiting Arts, Head of Performing Arts and Professional Development, England
Jan ZOET- Director of Rotterdam Schouwburg, Member of the IETM Administrative Board, the Netherlands,
Filippo Fabricca- Cittadellarte – Fondazione Pistoletto, Italy
Nevenka KOPRISKEV- Balkan Express Network Coordinator, Director of Bunker Productions, Slovenia
Dr. Kerstin Tomenendal- Turcologist, Director of the Austria-Turkey Forum of Sciences, Austria
Bernard FAIVRE D’ARCIER- Actually, we can say that Europe is a very complex construction and a common organization, which reveals at least three levels of cooperation: politics, economy and culture. And Europe is obviously very hard to build because Europe began by the economy and not the culture. Year after year, Europe had to face between two different tendencies; its own internal organization or to accept an enlargement of the members, and to deepen the notion of Europe. In my opinion it’s too risky to try both deepness and enlargement at the same time. The reason why now there is a great debate in western countries including France, anyway in the countries where the draft constitutional treaty has been put by referendum to the choice of the public opinion. As I said, it’s difficult to pass from economy to politics. Because if you consider the political construction of Europe, you will face another totally different landscape. Because it supposes very large principal of sovereignity for instance for foreign affairs, for military defense, by the role of European Parliament. As you know, the draft constitutional project is supposed to create the position of a common European Ministry of Foreign Affairs and of course this will be very difficult because, as it was said this morning, there is no consensus among the different European countries about the position for instance of Iraq and many other international problems. So, the political institutional landscape is very complex and will be in the future. So, I think we should have proceeded in another way, step by step before the enlargement. But history pushed everybody, every country to accept enlargement. First of all for political and even military reason because most of Central Europe countries were willing to belong to NATO and then to the European organization.
However, I think that if you consider this European Union as Turkish people you should make distinction between three different circles; I mean politics, economy and culture and of course, first prepare on the economic level or cultural level before the political one. But EU is very few active in the cultural field. Don’t forget that. Many people say that we should have began by culture as one of the founders of Europe is supposed to have said that “of course we should have began by culture”, in fact he has never said this sentence but in a way, when you listen to this sentence you can ask the politician why, if they have not begun by culture, why they have not followed by culture?
Culture was never a notion that came on the scene in European treaties. There was no mention of it before the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, and even for the new treaty now there is not a lot data or speech relating to culture, except of course some humanist intentions and consensual wishes. And usually when some politicians talk about culture, they systematically talk about three things on their agenda: the European heritage. European heritage is quoted in the draft treaty as the main object of cultural problem in Europe. The second one is the education and art is a little bit dissolved into this educational problem. But of course education is very important and has a rather successful position in the European structure. With this I mean the language, student exchange programs, Erasmus program and so on. And the third point where culture is quoted is about cultural industries; like of course television, music and other cultural industries. And of course it’s related to the issue of “cultural exception” that France together with some other countries tried to put on the table. Cultural products or cultural services are not similar to other products and services, they require a different approach. But there is nothing for the moment about creation and diffusion of arts, because it is considered as a subsidiary matter –you know the principle of dependence-. That’s why Europe has not intervened in this sector because it’s the main domain of state members and furthermore there are so many differences between the western countries, the political administrative organizations receiving cultural public support that of course it is not possible to try to have a common cultural policy as we have a common agricultural policy.
So, for the moment we cannot talk about a common cultural policy for Europe and I think this is a good thing. We can stress that we need to respect diversity, that means also the defense of every national system of protection or public supporting. There are three characteristics on the subject of special regulations in the fields of for example book prices in France, our own cinema industries or radio and broadcasting sector. So, we keep the necessity of unanimity as a principle in the field of culture in many cases. Each country has veto power in that field. Under such conditions you can understand that it is very difficult to build a common cultural policy.
In fact, the Europe of culture does exist of course but it is a result of the efforts made by professionals themselves, rather than political circles. The professionals have quickly enough realised that networks are the most efficient tools for cooperation. We will be talking about cultural networks this afternoon. And you will see that there are at least three types of cultural network: very large information networks like IETM which is now nearly 25 years old, networks formed by vocational institutions of similar capacity; for instance for theatres, Union of the Theatres of Europe or European Theatre Convention; two originally French initiatives that became now European networks. The third type is rather a network gathering big or small institutions around the same target like co-production, such as Theorème which was founded by the Avignon Festival and which now gathers 25 different theatres in Western and Eastern Europe for the co-productions of the new generation of directors and choreographers. But, of course these are the results of the professionals not of the political will. Because when you consider political will, you can say that although very much expressed in colloquium and seminars, it is not an issue mentioned when there is talk of the budget. For instance the part of the current European budget devoted to culture is 0.12 right now and it will only reach 0.15 in 2013. So, you can see the existing different difficulties.
Let me answer your question on the formation of networks like the Theorème. As I don’t have much time left, I would like to conclude by telling you that it is possible to have a European cultural cooperation without being part of the European constitution. Turkey can work and cooperate on the cultural level without being a member of the European constitution. So, you don’t have to wait for the result of future negotiations but you have rather to multiply your contacts through networks belonging to different circles. I’m talking not only about European ones, but also -as we saw in the session this morning- Euro-Mediterranean circles. Last but not least please don’t forget the role of artists themselves in these discussions. Please invite not only institutional representatives, not only professionals but also artists.
Mahir NAMUR- Thank you very much. So I will just introduce very shortly Nelson Fernandez. He is going to focus on the role of cultural operators in cultural relations.
Nelson FERNANDEZ- Yes in many ways some of what I will be talking about really follows on very much from what Bernard has just been telling us. In his opening statement for yesterday session Mahir Namur told us that cultural cooperation is an important tool in developing understanding between nations and cultures. For obvious reasons this generates a common denominator for the things we have listened to in yesterday’s session. I’ve taken this commonly shared belief as my starting point. Because for me the question is how best to facilitate, and by what means to develop this cultural dialogue, cultural cooperation.
Since the seminar is the culmination of a series of arts management training initiatives that have been developed by the European Cultural Association and its partners, following the wish of Bernard on the invitation and participation of artists, I thought I would focus today on the role of the cultural manager rather than that of the artist. Although I fully agree and realize that the two roles are necessarily mutually connected. I should also say, just to possibly put into further context what I’m doing, that I was a dance artist for 22 years. So, I do have a little experience of what it is in practice. In any case I also know that Jan Zoet is going to be talking about the role of artist in these networks, so in a sense it’s very useful because we’ll really be complementing each other I hope. But first what I’d like to do is to tell you a little bit about Visiting Arts which already Mahir has spoken about briefly.
Visiting Arts was founded in 1977 and it’s an independent charity based in the UK but it’s primarily founded by government and also by non-governmental public organizations in the UK. It’s a sister organization to the British Council. We here look to nurture, to strengthen, to encourage the mutual understanding and communication of the arts and cultures of other countries in the UK. Why do we do this? Because we think that there is much to be gained by this mutual understanding. We feel that our own public, our own audience and civil society need that understanding if we are to function effectively in the outside world but also don’t forget of course that we are no longer a homogenous society; we are culturally a very diverse society. We therefore place very high value on the contribution that the arts of other parts of the world can make to us. How do we do this? Well, again it’s through information, it’s by providing advice both to foreign artists and foreign producers and also to our own artists and producers, by providing opportunities for UK arts organizations to meet and work with their counterparts, we run artists’ residencies programs which provide these opportunities. We have a series of publications which are cultural profiles of 32 countries throughout the world including places like Lebanon, Iran, Vietnam, Slovenia, Afghanistan. We also organize a whole series of promoters’ and curators’ trips to overseas festivals and biennials and I sincerely hope that we will be able to arrange some of the similar visits here in Turkey because I think that’s an important way of creating further links. And also I would like to add that in Britain we have a modest amount of money set aside as budget which is less than half a million or around 600,000 Euros per year for supporting arts activities in other parts of the world. We have also developed a whole series of professional development opportunities for arts managers. These programs aim to explore and develop the facilities of art managers of other countries to also work under changing cultural conditions.
It is the role of the art managers I would like to focus on today. What is this role? We all know that a dialogue takes place between artists, between artists and audiences and also similarly between cultural managers. I would say that a cultural manager can play a significant and active role in the course of this change process. But in order to be an effective player in these transactions and to be an effective mediator if you will, the cultural manager needs to develop creative projects, to support artists, to manage the projects successfully, to know how to engage with audiences who may not be familiar with the world that you’re representing, to attract financial support and to have developed the necessary understanding for the methodologies, the techniques, the approaches needed in order to survive under conditions which we often consider to be tough. All of these things I think have been very usefully considered and have to some extent been covered in some of the seminars that took place in the last few months. But there is much more work to be done. However, I would say that the cultural manager, the creative producer if you will, can be much more than just that. I would suggest that the cultural manager can serve as something that I would call, for lack of a better term, a sort of intercultural interpreter. This intercultural interpreter has the role of helping our civil societies, our public, our audiences understand and appreciate other societies and cultures. I know so I can tell that around the table there are people who understand this role very fully. I also did exactly this for years, I served as an interpreter. We need to look to encourage in our audiences an appreciation not only for who we are or for what other countries are, we need to encourage an appreciation for the diversity of other cultures. Yes, of course we want to grow together as Europeans, and as Europeans we all are here whether we are part of the EU or not and I completely agree with Bernard that this is a sine qua non of our dialogue. We are all Europeans. But I think this appreciation of diversity needs to be fostered and the value of diversity be promoted. It is as much a way of thinking, an attitude, as much as anything else. How can we develop this intercultural understanding? Well, as I’ve already mentioned, I think that through programs like the one that has been ongoing in the last three-four months, we can seek to develop and broaden the skills of our cultural manager practitioners. I should say that I myself would very much look forward to working with partners here in Turkey but also that I would like some of our partners from other parts of Europe to think about the issue of broadening these skills by means of exploring the emergent initiatives that will help to form a closer understanding on how each of us operate in the field of cultural management. Much of the work can be carried out here in Turkey, but it would also be helpful to develop programs enabling cultural managers to gain experience in other countries in Europe. Once again we realize that this is a question of funds, because as Bernard has emphasized earlier, institutional policies have talked a great deal about it but have done really little in terms of putting funds at the disposal of arts. However, we also need to ensure that cultural managers adopt this important intercultural role and we need to engage in a dynamic redefinition of it. I would say that this can only come about if we are able to think extensively about it and try to conceptualize what this role might be.
I’m aware –as has been depicted yesterday by a listener- that some of my colleagues here believe that we should not be seeking to encourage national initiatives, we should not be seeking to support initiatives that foster national identity. I completely disagree because we should not be trying to develop a European-wide identity by simply obliterating what is different in us. We should enjoy diversity, we should come to appreciate it and we should do this without sacrificing our individual cultural identity. This is just something to leave you with. I have no other specific thing to tell except the thought that we need to work together. Thank you.
Jan ZOET- Thank you Nelson. As I was introduced I’m Jan Zoet from Rotterdam, the Netherlands and looking at the program of this afternoon, it says it is about: Tools and Actions For Improving Turkey-Europe Cultural Relations Within the Context of National Foreign Culture Agencies, NGOs, Cultural Networks and Artistic Activities. And this last notion I’d really like to pick up because it really follows on the line that has been started today and I think that it’s really important to talk about artists and practical examples of best practices in working with artists because that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? The relations between people, especially artists.
When we talk about cultural relations, my point of view to speak about this is from the Netherlands where I’m based and specially my experience as a cultural manager in the international theatre, as a producer, a company manager, a dramaturg and also board member of IETM. Indeed that is the Informal European Theatre Meeting existing since 1981 and before I speak about this and other practical examples of how to work with artists in the international context, I would like to stress some modalities that are some vital principles to keep in mind when working in international context. I would like to stress the fact that you can work on relations in many ways but I’d like to be specific in my story and talk about my work as a theatre person. So, working with performing artists who are only existing to communicate with audiences by creating performances. So, keep that in mind if I talk about artists and exchange.
So, these modalities or principles I’d like to mention before going on to my examples are: although structures, political and cultural goals and strategies as discussed before are very important and useful and we can’t ignore them, as I said the cultural relations are happening between people and artists and the people working with them. We need to really create time and space to get to know each other. It sounds simple but it’s absolutely vital. It takes years in relation with artists, to come to a co-production that you together create and put up. So, no incidence but continuity in creating time and space and meeting.
Another one that I’ve learnt is that it is absolutely vital to be aware and precise in context, in what do you learn from each other, from each other’s backgrounds, methods, styles, starting points. It’s so easy to say “Well, I’ve seen it, we’ve done that in Holland 20 years ago, so it’s not interesting to watch this performance or to concentrate on artists”. There is this position of too many, especially western but maybe also Turkish cultural managers or programs that say that: “We know this, we’ve seen it before and according to us there is only one modality and that is ours.” So this arrogance regardless from what point of view is absolutely out of the question.
And the most vital question or principle is the question “Why are you doing it?” Why are you, or anyone - let’s talk about me - why am I inviting performances? Is it because they are from Turkey and we have a lot of Turkish people living there, so let’s do that because it’s politically correct or whatever? No, it’s absolutely essential to find an artistic necessity to invite or collaborate or work. So, why would you want to go to Europe if you live in Istanbul? This amazing city that really becomes the most interesting place on the earth… this is my opinion and I’d like to come here and I will come back here. So, these are the principles I wanted to give you before I concentrate on one of the things I mentioned; to create time and space and continuity.
One instrument for its space and its time, it was mentioned before, Informal European Theatre Meeting IETM is an instrument, vehicle if you want, where artists and cultural managers can meet. It is a network organization, a membership organization, it’s found by its members, more than 400 members are now in IETM. They come from all European countries. I must say we had Turkish guests, there are no Turkish members yet but I really want to invite you to come to one of the meetings we have and see if it’s something that can be useful as an instrument to meet again. I’ll tell you a little bit about its structure. As I said it has several functions but the central and main function is to be a network; a network for artists and people working with artists. There are two planetary meetings every year in a European city. The last one was in Belgrade one month ago. The next one will take place in Utrecht-Holland in November and will be a four day meeting that starts on Thursday and goes on until Sunday. And what happens is that there are debates like this one but mostly one big debate with important speakers around a certain theme and then the rest of the four days, groups are split up into working groups or specialists’ sessions or master classes around specific questions: How to find money in Europe? Or how to organize your little theatre company? Or how to find fellow travelers or certain ways to find your artistic work happening. So that’s around all these themes and lines that IETM is organized and they used to meet. Of course there are also performances. That’s something I like especially myself. I would never go to Belgrade, maybe I would but it’s a very good combination; being there, talk with professional fellow travelers about what your passion and your profession is, and at the same time see work of young and experienced artists and performances from that country.
Apart from the network, IETM is also a project unit; you have the network and the project. At this point, several projects are really worth mentioning. One has already been mentioned this morning in the morning session; it’s the website www.onthemove.org On this web site you can really find all information about jobs in performing arts, about how to get travel money when you want to go somewhere, who to reach or who to talk to or where to go if you want to move, be mobile in Europe. In this respect it’s really useful.
Other projects coming out of IETM; one example is the Balkan Express. This working group came out of IETM consisting of members from the Balkan countries. Nevenka will tell all about it later this afternoon. Another project worth mentioning I think, was the 100 artists in Palestine, where European artists went to Palestine for ten days and worked with artists and people from Palestine in very specific, concrete projects. It was wonderful and at the second part they came to Europe and worked there and these contacts are still going on. So, these are Afri connections and Africa project is happening there. So, it’s very flexible, diverse and this is not commercial but as you can see I think it’s useful. So, you can go there and ignore everything and it’s a boring meeting, but if you’re open, willing to talk, to listen and to get rid of your prejudices, it’s something to know and that’s why “Turkey come and join IETM”.
Although we don’t have much more time left, I want to mention about a very good example for me, one more project that is happening here; 150 kilometers from Istanbul where we are sitting, it’s at the shores of the Marmara Sea, a little village called Ganos and a person living there, having little wineyards, wants to create and in fact started to create a place where people from Turkey and Europe, artists, scientists can meet. It’s called Ganos and the project is called the Ganos Project. I have some copies for people who are interested in it. The concept is to offer space to live, reflect and create for artists on culture and science and it is an ideal location for research, exchange, creation and for a think-tank; time and space again, it’s so vital. And it’s not about making money at all, it’s about idealism and interest in people and it’s already starting to be there. It still needs some support to be physically finished but already it’s functioning and the wine is wonderful. So, that was my contribution. Thank you.
Mahir NAMUR- So, as you know, before this session and the preparation, all the speakers said “We should talk very little and let the others speak because we see that the people want to” but as is seen it doesn’t end up like that. So, would you like to direct any questions to the first three speakers? So we’re passing on to the evaluation and then as we continue, if you don’t have any questions we’ll have a lot of time, if you really want to talk.
A listener- Now, although the conferring of a special, exceptional status to the cultural-artistic field within the European Union, i.e. the appearance of it as a field subsidizable by the member states is conceived actually in order to protect the cultural-artistic field, there are worries about the danger of its facilitating the determination of their culture and art policy under nationalistic concerns. This is a worry I can relate to. Instead, I suspect that operating networks as an alternative to this and the surrender of international cooperation to networks, in a sense obstruct the formation of a bureaucratical structure. As a result, a bureaucracy of cultural operators arises within these networks and it forms a whole set of self-nourishing activities in and for themselves, detached from artists and artistic activities. I have such reservations; can anything be said on this subject?
Mahir NAMUR- To whom do you ask the question?
The listener- To all three speakers.
Bernard FAIVRE D’ARCIER- It could be a risk but I think it is not the case. I have been knowing now for 25 years the elaboration of networks. I was at the origin of IETM. At the beginning it was a very small group and the title is Informal European Theatre Meeting. Of course, year after year it became a large organization but you cannot say it’s bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is not here, bureaucracy is in Brussels. For instance, when as Director of Avignon Festival, I decided in 1998 to give larger space to theatre and dance production coming from Central Europe, I decided to make the travel to Brussels but it was for me very difficult because I had to face a huge bureaucracy. And indeed I had some difficulty to find the right office to listen to my request. First of all the people asked me “OK, you try to describe your program but please what is the name, the title of your program?” But I had no title at that time of course, so, in the afternoon I invented the name Theorème because there was Eureka in other fields and Theorème was the abbreviation of “Theaters East and West, European confluences at the Millennium” originally French and as soon as I had the title it was okay. Now the title is recognized even by our French president of the Republic who quoted the Theorème program project as an example few days ago. But, also it was the beginning of the difficulties and for instance I learned that some civil servant I met was absolutely against the principle of the public support to arts. He told me “Why do you want to help some young theatre directors or young artists in this part of Europe?” because of course, since the crash down of the wall in Berlin, probably all good artists would be in the United States. It was exactly like that but step by step we succeeded to have some money. But I would like to say that if I had to begin again Theorème, I would be discouraged, anyway, because it’s so many efforts for so few money and it takes so much time. I think on the contrary that networks are very mobile, professional, effective and flexible organizations and very often informal organizations. But maybe there is a risk that there are more and more networks and artists are too much hidden by the networks. So, it could be a risk to that point.
Nelson FERNANDEZ- I would only wish to add that; yes, there is also a danger undoubtedly that networks become self-appointed guardians of the gates which I think was what you’re referring to. But, you know, networks also die and new networks emerge as we have all discussed. I know from experience that we have networks that arise and develop out of an interest and a need which may last for only a few years. For example in the UK, I remember that there was a network that emerged in the 70s focused on Romanian theatre and this is when a lot of producers in Europe began to be aware of wonderful Romanian theatre directors. And that emerged, had a life, it developed collaborations with Romania, with other parts of Europe and eventually the need for that specific kind of network diminished. I think that, that’s absolutely right and proper. As for the artists, I will say that very often in my experience, artists are part of the networks. And certainly, if you talk about IETM, artists are represented. Now, this is not always the case, but I think that there is no reason why artists should not have those networks. And one last thing that I would like to just perhaps address in your question, was the whole idea that national governments look to support their own national arts in order to, in some way protect their own national identity, what is wrong with that? Could you tell me?
A listener- Well, I also wish to emphasize that this discourse of respect to differences, coexistence in diversity overlaps with the development of a policy on nationalistic concerns as well. It could be useful to mention this too.
Zeynep GÜNSUR- Thank you for the talks. I just want to ask you this question: since many of the networks and cultural dialogues are financed by European money, what do you think about this intercultural interpretation which is a very delicate subject as for me, and also if you act with a European based budget, do you think that some problems would arise in creating this mutual dialogue between people, countries, regardless of their being European or not? And do you have any suggestions as Europeans to be aware of this? From my side, it’s a problem because finance is fairly important.
Nevenka KOPRISKEV- I completely agree with you, I was not part of European Union and it was very difficult to get European money. There was always the question of the cost of collective working and you never could be legitimate or non legitimate and so on. But it’s the only way to continuously work on it. I mean like this initiative I will tell you later on, Balkan Express is exactly about it. There are so many countries already around the Mediterranean Sea who are next to each other and one can participate to several programs, and who can tell you not to work with him? Come on, it is completely ridiculous. It’s up to us to change that. Network is something a lot of people talk about. A lot of politicians say “We will arrange that network and that network”. It does not work, there has to be a real need of people who want to collaborate and who already have some links and then maybe European money just facilitates this exchange. If I talk about Balkan experience; we had a big interest to come here but we would be probably much more if we would have a little bit more money. This is as simple as that. But you are absolutely right that countries should not be excluded but included.
Mahir NAMUR- Maybe we can take the next questions after the next three speakers. Now I’ll give the word to Filippo Fabricca who is working at Euro-Mediterranean level. He will concentrate on the subjects related to transformation of the society.
Filippo FABRICCA- Good afternoon to everybody. Already my colleagues said, touched most of the subjects that I would like to present in my speech. So, I will go to very practical things because I’m going to present the activity that we work in Cittadellarte – Fondazione Pistoletto. Cittadellarte means “city of art” and Pistoletto is the name of the man who together with a group of people started few years ago to create a center for contemporary art in a textile factory. And the subject of Cittadellarte is to make research and works for responsible transformation of civil society through ideas and creativity. So the idea is that the artists have to take a position also in the problem of the society. They are not just using art to communicate representative problems, but to be involved, to use the creative ideas and creative projects to create relationship, also to be connected with the other parts of the society.
So, here we create a kind of difference that is to create a link between art and politics, art and economics, art and religion, production. With a group of people we don’t want to create a model but we would like to create an example in the way that art and the creative process can work for the transformation of the civil society. I will present you later one of the main projects of the politics offices; this is “Love Difference” project but I will say a few words about the economics office that is for example to create, make a research about sustainability, economy like micro-credits. Creativities are also in the economy and we would like to show this process. The same is with the production: we work with an Italian fashion company. We also work with the industrial union of Italy. We work with them because we think that every product can be responsible, every product can use materials that also are responsible. You can use creative and new ways for producing things. You can also have a new way of working with a label. You can have a different way, for this reason we create training in the factory. We also make a production to make cups of coffee for example and we write “No water, no coffee”, just the design but we would like to give a message to the people; so you can have the best coffee in the world but if you don’t take care about the water you cannot drink your coffee. And these were just few examples. Another cup of coffee that we make is “Love Difference”; you have the form of the Mediterranean and it is written “Love Difference” in different languages of the Mediterranean.
So, “Love Difference” is in the beginning an artistic movement for inter-Mediterranean politics in the way that this artistic movement is also coming from the people, a group of people that come together and say “OK we can create a network”, but also because they come together and they decide that they can help each other to develop projects in the Mediterranean. The Mediterranean is a subject, is kind of a symbol, you know sometimes the artists need a symbol. Mediterranean is the symbol but the network has already developed outside the Mediterranean, in South America we organized a workshop for instance. And also we have a contact school in Bangalore in India and “inter-Mediterranean” means internationally Mediterranean politics. Why politics? Because we think that with projects you can really touch some social, some civil society problems and using creativity you can work with the people, change the context and maybe solve the problems. And a kind of idea of politics not in the parliament but in the social society, that is also part of the politics and sometimes we forget this.
So, “Love Difference” is a non profit association founded in 2002. It has been active for only a couple of years and it’s promoted by the artistic project of the Fondazione Pistoletto because we choose to be an artistic project but we also have to be an association that is developing to create new links and partnerships. So, all the people are invited to come, to join the association and to express their ideas. But also we create a new way of structure where also the people can get involved. We have a web site, a newsletter, conferences, meetings, exhibitions, we propose cultural and political events.
So, the mission of “Love Difference” is to increase the cooperation about actual social issues and to promote the intercultural dialogue through creative projects which are connected with the social context. In which way? With an intercultural network which uses creativity for responsible change of society. So, we would like to promote the development of artistic object for responsible transformation of society in the Mediterranean area and to show the importance of creativity in our society, also to stimulate the creativity of singular persons. Because it is a network that is really open to people. So, we would like to say that we have activities that invite people to use personal creativity for creating and sharing with the other. Thank you.
Nevenka KOPRISKEV- I come from Ljubljana, Slovenia. I would really like to thank Mahir and Zeynep to invite me here. First of all, I have a huge respect for Turkish artistic community which I had a chance to host in my festival. Companies like Studio Players, Mustafa Kaplan... And another thing is that I really love this city and more I know the artistic community more I like it, more I’m interested, more curious and the more I visit this city the more I want to know about it.
What I would really like to say is that actually, the collaboration and the life do not start today. Turkey already had a lot of links, not only with Balkan, but as well with other countries in Europe. I mean I have met Aydın in Berlin two weeks ago, I see Emre there, who was as well in Ljubljana , I see Zeynep who was one of the co-founders of DBM, another EU network. What I want to say is that all of those people are mainly the individuals, artists or NGOs. So, I would really like to stress that these are the windows. And I sincerely hope that Turkish Ministry of Culture, city or regional authorities understand that these people are the ones who are carrying these changes and they are the ones who are opening up and making these passes which are not just bilateral but really multilateral for concrete international cooperation. So, as well international funding bodies.
I’m coming from Slovenia which is a really tiny little country. I mean just two million people, which means, compared to Istanbul which is 17 million it’s really small. And especially after the beginning of 90’s when Yugoslavia felt apart, the country became kind of smaller. The cultural space kind of shrank and so the urgency, the need to work internationally was extremely huge. At that time I was running a really tiny little venue, Glej Theatre. I was mainly producing Slovene work and trying to create more international contacts. Very soon I got the chance to get involved with IETM and for me it was a fantastic platform of access of information. One can feel sometimes very isolated whether it is because there is no information or maybe there is too much information and you just don’t know which one to pick. This network’s meetings are fantastic opportunities just to meet people who are either similar, who are in the same kind of soup or different from you and therefore interesting and inspiring. And it is through IETM that I actually met a lot of colleagues with whom we started new networks: Junge Hunde, DBM, Aylin is one of the founders of DBM, Zeynep is in the Administrative Board of DBM. Then I’ve met of course all my colleagues from the Balkan Express and as well people from the Theorème and little by little I became member of almost all of them. It takes a lot of time and a lot of work but it gives a lot of opportunity.
As you know, Slovenia is now member of EU which of course gives a lot of new opportunities, new challenges but as well creates some problems or dangers like we have now with new borders which mean more strict migration policy. Therefore especially if I talk now about Balkan region, the gap between Slovenia and Greece can become even much stronger. And as much I would say that Slovenia is at the crossroad, everybody says it is, like you in Istanbul for sure are. Our responsibility is to build a kind of bridge and the window at the same time.
So, actually during one of those IETM meetings there was a bunch of colleagues who said “We should really do something about it” and so it started only as a working group: the Balkan Express. We deliberately call it Balkan because apparently not always it’s politically correct; some people say South-east... and actually it was in Vienna that I have seen that the word Balkan is coming from Turkey, not only because of the mountain but Bal-kan: blood and honey, maybe I’m wrong, I found this explanation in this fantastic exhibition in Vienna “Blood and Honey”. It symbolically means this all tortured area with all the problems and at the same time paradise, paradisiacal area with all this fantastic landscape, cultural diversity and the richness that it has. So, this Balkan Express group first time gathered in Ljubljana. It was just before IETM’s meeting in Trieste, it was a joint adventure. We invited interesting activists which I call “cultural activists” from the region. At the beginning we were mainly talking about political issues, obstacles like problems of visas. It became quickly very clear that there was a need of people really to know more about each other, work together and to cooperate. There was like an immediate complicity or a wish to re-establish the links or rediscover the region. It was quite clear that there we share similar problems too. There is a huge lack of everything: information, infrastructure, education, education in management training as well as artistic training. We really should try to do something about it. So, that’s how it was started 3 years ago. What we would really like to do is actually to encourage mobility, not only inside Balkan region, of course mainly inside the Balkan region but also with the rest of the world, trying as well to provide a better information system. Sometimes we are successful, sometimes we are not because we are all overworked and as well working on voluntary base. At the moment if we as network want to work in a more organized way, I would say “professionally”, we will probably have to apply for some European money or other money because otherwise there will always be just a good wish; we would like to work together but we can just have no resources to go from one place to the other. Beside that, often it’s cheaper to go to Paris or to Amsterdam than it is from Sophia to Zagreb or from Albania to Slovenia. We also work on the access to information and organize meetings on it. Until now there were seven meetings; one was held in Ljubljana as I told, one in Sarajevo. Some artistic workshops were organized at the same time. In Romania which was actually more focused on cultural management. Sometimes we organize Caravan meetings as well, which are a gathering of a bunch of different cultural activists or artists who get invited by certain host, for example VTI (Vlaams Theater Instituut did that in Flanders). Flemish community has been very seriously involved in the project since the beginning and they invited 10 people from Balkan region to come and just to spend a week together and meet different artistic organizations. It was very inspiring, Flanders, who may be in 80’s in the same position of transition when their porte-parole was to internationalization, which is a way to well reinforce the national culture somehow. I mean that cosmopolitism and internationalization reinforce our national cultural identity. Like German philosopher Ulrich Beck would say a cosmopolitan man has wings and roots at the same time.
So, another meeting was held in Belgrade during the IETM meeting, where about 70 people came around. Inside this meeting started a smaller project focused in dance. The critical mass of people interested in contemporary dance was big enough; we can already talk of a dance community. They started their own brainstorm project and they will meet in Sophia in beginning of June. Some of them came here and they unfortunately aren’t here today, they went to visit some colleagues in Istanbul that they have met yesterday here to look some new spaces. What I would like to say is the open invitation to people who want to collaborate with us, just please approach us. We hope that we can organize sooner or later a general Balkan Express meeting here in Turkey, the network is really open. It could be just gathering of operators or artists coming from different regions. Another advantage is the basis, the ground for interchange between artists and producers; we try to keep a right balance, half artists and half producers. Not only that artists in the region are often their own producers, that’s how it is more likeable that we come quickly to the concrete issues and concrete projects as well and concrete ways of working together. So, that’s one of the possibilities of the model of a network.
Another issue is for sure to open discussion about mobility. We are all coming from regions where there have always been a lot of forced migrations going around. It’s important to think about mobility as a choice, and not by economic or political need. Because there are a lot of artists, either from Turkey or elsewhere who get more opportunity to work abroad. They should get as well support at home. I think and I really want to stress that a lot of artists are as mobile as they are because they don’t have opportunities to have conditions for continuity of work, professional working conditions. For sure there is a big need for more mobility. Mobility should be a matter of free choice and not the only way out. At least my experience in the region is that the level of artistic quality is really highly professional as well as the way people are organized is really highly professional, but not the conditions they are working in. The way cultural surrounding, cultural policy and the way people are organized as well influence the artistic work, form and the content. So, we are all reinventing as well the models because we have more or less the same challenges. One of them is for sure reform of public sector. In most of our systems a lot of the public institutions are oversized and the NGOs have difficulties to survive. But this is already an issue for some other meeting. Thank you very much.
Mahir NAMUR- Thank you Nevenka. Now Kerstin will talk about stereotypes.
Kerstin TOMENENDAL- I come from Austria. I would like in my presentation to concentrate on the impact of NGOs on Turkish-European cultural relations. I’m very much aware of the fact and I’m sure all of you are aware of this fact as well; the momentary situation in Austria is very gross concerning Turkey. You know that 70% of the Austrians suppose Turkey is not member of EU and only 18% are in favor and I count myself to the 18% party. There are deep rooted fears and prejudices against Turkey, of course these also exist since 9/11. I personally think that this picture has to be changed because I know Turkey as a very rich, very modern and dynamic country. And I think that this type of fears and prejudices can only be changed by implementing culture and science. At this point I would like to cite a very touching and true Turkish proverb which the Austrian-Turkish Forum of Sciences also uses as one of its slogans: “Knowledge will grow as long as you share it.” This is a very important message.
When in March 2005 the German (of Turkish origin) artist Feridun Zaimoğlu covered the front façade of Kunsthalle in Vienna which is located in the Museumsquartier, the center of of the city in terms of contemporary art with Turkish flags, people spoke about the 3rd Turkish siege in Vienna. Meanwhile a personal remark: I am of Swedish origin. The Swedish had also set out to conquer Vienna, but nobody is talking about this. I can’t help to wonder whether a provocation as much as that created by the artwork of Zaimoğlu would have been witnessed if the Swedish attempted to bedeck Vienna with Swedish flags. If you ask what kind of arguments arose; one of the politicians said that Vienna must not become Istanbul because of this cultural impact of Feridun Zaimoğlu. Of course as a result of this, the fears surfaced again and the discussions grew rougher. Nowadays they have printed new banners saying “Vienna must not become Ankara” which speaks for itself.
Well, when talking and thinking about Austrian mentality concerning Turkey, one will always be confronted with this sort of 1683 image. And here you see Karamustafa Pasha on the very left side. When in 2003 the Austrian-Turkish Forum of Sciences organized the symposium on Karamustafa Pasha, taking into account new archive materials, they also tried to arrange a friendship between Merzifon and a little village about this little town in the proximity of Vienna and it is as big as Merzifon, so we thought it appropriate to approach and ask them whether they wanted to become friends. They had a city kind of meeting and then the answer was “No”, because 1683 was still too much in persons’ memories, which is ridiculous because there’s so much time gone. When thinking about Turkey, it’s also the picture of the fears which is of course not correct. And the picture of laziness and the picture of coffee which is of course a wonderful impact on Austrian history especially since we are worldwide known for coffee… Interestingly enough, we don’t speak about the dove which was brought by the Turks to Austria.
If you visit Vienna, you will see all kinds of fears and gross reminders of the Turks, mainly concentrating on the war history. Especially the war museum, I have to tell you that we got a big flag collection, as big as the Topkapı Sarayı collection. And there are a lot of weapons hanging around as well but on the other hand, Austria is also the center of Oriental Studies. There’s wonderful projects like Andreas Tietze “Historical and Etymological Turkey Turkish Dictionary” which is the etymological dictionary of the Turkish of Turkey where I worked for the last 10 years till Andreas unfortunately passed away too early and couldn’t complete this marvelous work. There are also rich archive sources which have not been studied, also in the cultural context. I think personally that acceptance of Turkey in the cultural field is of key importance. It is important to do something in Austria to arise positive sentiments for Turkey. Because this could really seriously jeopardize Turkey’s EU accession.
Well, coming to the situation of NGOs in Austria and Turkish NGOs of course, this is not a correct approach, I’m aware of that fact that a lot of cultural activities are going on, some of them are on a very small level, some of them are on a big level. Most of the activities are directed at the Turks; made from Turks for Turks. Most of the Austrian contributions are on Turkey and the fear of Turkey. But lately I have seen that there is a very big interest in Turkish films. So we hope to organize at the end of this year a festival in low Austria concerning Turkish films, so we hope to have a platform and also hope to approach our neighbors, for instance Slovenia as well.
Activities; as I’ve mentioned, there are a lot of activities but only activities representing the old Turkish stereotype on Turkey are present in people’s hype. So, recently there was the presentation of “Anatolian Fire” in Vienna and I had the honor to receive two free cards and I was seated in the middle of a bunch of Austrians and I suppose most of you know ‘Anatolian Fire’; it’s a rather aggressive presentation and I could see the Austrian’s expressions when the Turks moved around so I think this is not the method to approach especially the Austrians.
Then another rather big event was a presentation of dervishes, from Mevlana. And especially after having seen Ziya yesterday and his wonderful presentation of new re-interpretation of old Turkish traditions, I would personally wish that people like Ziya Azazi would stand more in the center of attention in comparison of the old picture which is presented all over and all over.
I would also like to introduce the Austrian-Turkish Forum of Sciences; we also are an NGO and we were founded in 2001 and consist of a scientific board of professors. One of them is İlber Ortaylı who is now the new “müdür” of Topkapı Sarayı and a team of 11 academicians who are into different interdisciplinary topics. We specialised on networking between Turkey and Austria within the context of the EU also getting multinational context especially in scientific and cultural communities. Our view of the Austrian –Turkish relations is always to try to get both parties on one table or on one “tabak”. So, it’s just again if you think about the mutual history, it’s our symbols of the past and we should try to adapt them and to get them into the right features.
We also try to make people aware that Turkish music is not only the mehter music, but that there’s also Turkish waltz. You see Ahmet Özhan here, he is a quite famous Turkish artist and he presented Turkish waltz music in the Austrian National Library.
We also did some exhibitions in the Austrian State Archive showing the Austrian-Turkish friendship within the activities around the 80 years of Republic of Turkey. Also we try to combine in our workshops and symposiums a cultural part. You got one Turkish piano player who is also professor in Austria and teaches at the Conservatorium.
Finally, to conclude and to keep my presentation in time; I think that it’s very important that especially Austria is embedded within a global network of EU projects integrating Turkey and underlining its value for all of us. I want to conclude with the picture of the Austrian state contracts being signed on 15th May 1955 and it was signed on a Turkish carpet. The Turkish embassy was vis-à-vis of Belvedere Castle and Turks offered to lend the carpet to the Austrians and so it’s a very famous carpet which is still at the Turkish Embassy. Thank you very much for your attention.
Mahir NAMUR- Thank you Kerstin. Do you have any questions or comments?
Bir izleyici- I just have one question. What do you do with the problem of the artist on the fringe, of counter culture and national culture? Actually maybe this is a question for Nelson. It seems to me that there are artists who want to change and challenge the national culture. Where are they in all of this? Are they not going to be helped quite as much?
Jan ZOET- As far as I’ve been speaking about the arts as well here as I think anywhere, I don’t think the fringe was excluded at all speaking about the artists and companies you could call free groups or independent groups or fringe. We spoke about the fringe and that’s why and that’s maybe -I want to add that also in relation to other questions- the networks have another function. Networks enable independent groups without much support, without much infrastructure and experience to work together and create a platform or a power or whatever you want to call it, to fight the national institutions because you have to do that or to get support from other sources than the national sources. So, at least for me that’s an answer to your question. I think they are, and I’m sure they are included.
In fact, if you look at networks, very often networks include artists and companies of very different levels of development. And in fact, in truth, correct me if I’m wrong Jan but, I don’t think that large national companies are the primary members of networks like IETM at all. So perhaps it was a misunderstanding but there was no sense at all that those artists were not being discussed.
A listener- What would you say to the problem where there was a cartoonist who made fun of the Prime Minister and found himself in quite a bit of hot water, what about that? I mean that strikes me as the kind of artist here who is in need of very special support.
Yeşim Özsoy GÜLAN- I have a comment, not a question. A year ago, we were happy to be in a Festival in Europe and it was called “New Places from Europe Theatre Biennial” and within that Europe definition we were also included as Turkey. And also Russia, Latvia was included. So I thought that was a good example of culture and politics defining a festival European and inviting what you considered as the boundaries of Europe. And within that festival of course there were some panels and there were some talks about why some European countries were invited and Russia and Turkey were there too. In one of those panels, there was one person from an Eastern European country - I apologize to the Eastern European people, I don’t remember the country - and one from Greece and one from Turkey. Through their discussion about Europe and Turkey the Eastern European person said, “Wow, we are so busy of trying to get rid of the Ottoman heritage that we forgot our Europeanness”. Here I thought this person is having a problem with the Ottoman heritage and how to deal with it and how to integrate it into the contemporary Eastern European country. And there, I thought now, after all these talks, especially after the last talk, that it is the same problem for us. I think of course it’s nice to discuss how Europe sees Turkey and how it should be integrated but it’s also important how Turkey sees itself and how it should integrate the Ottoman heritage into contemporary Turkey. In terms of that I think we are sending very mixed messages and those come up. So, it’s important how we represent ourselves, especially in the light of Ottoman and contemporary Turkey.
Kerstin TOMENENDAL- I think it’s a very interesting comment you made. As Austrian-Turkish Forum of Sciences we are very much aware of the fact that parts of history have to be rewritten and re-tought. I mean it’s not acceptable, it’s not up-to-date to ignore one’s past and one should also take into account that it was not only the Turkish treat and the Ottoman treat, as well as the Austrians, the Welsh and the English, all the west of the world was expanding towards the Ottoman Empire. So, I think we should try to get more open basics in order to discuss more openly and to look together at our common history, at our common culture and at our common future. This is my opinion.
Nelson FERNANDEZ- This relates to the point that you brought up and it’s just simply an observation that I think another way of, actually, addressing some of the issues. For example I know of an initiative in the UK which is taking place in the UK but it’s also taking place in Germany I believe, in the Netherlands, in France and possibly in a couple of European countries. And it’s a new urban theatre initiative. One of the people who work at Visiting Arts reminded me as I was coming here that Turkey is included, there are Turkish companies being considered and included in this new urban European theatre season which is going to be across a variety of places in Europe. It’s not because it’s Turkish theatre, it’s because it’s urban theatre and because Turkey rightly has something to say, Turkish artists have something to say. So, this is another way in which all this is happening, it’s not just purely talking about Turkish or British or French. It’s about looking at some of the problems that we have. And I think in terms of identity you’re absolutely right. This is really the point I was making earlier about identity and national identity. It’s not about nationalism but it’s about identity, about recognizing who one is and where one comes from. And there are many ways in which we can integrate ourselves into a body politic or into a debate without necessarily having nationalism as a flag.
Filippo FABRICCA- National identity is something that is changing. So, it’s something which is not fixed and we are working together for also a new vision, a new point of view, to create innovation.
A listener - I’m from Brussels, Belgium. So, many of you might know what Belgium is. So, I was just following your remark on the fringe or more experimental projects. The networks, IETM, but also other networks have largely contributed for those small initiatives to have visibility. Yet, I think that the main principles of the European funding are there expressly to suppress any kind of experimentation in the sense that, as Mister Faivre d’Arcier just explained, there are three main values: one heritage, I would say that it’s a very narrowly conceived image of heritage that is promoted. Two; the connection with economics and three; almost the same as the second, is the cultural industry. Out of these three main lines it’s very hard to get any funding from the European Commission as far as I can say. Of course you have these structural funds. But yet it’s still the culture as instrument for a regional policy. So, there is really no cultural policy and I would say that it’s also a very nationalistic view of Europe where all the territories are divided and you have to obey a very nationalistic principle. Nevenka just said, one could qualify Nevenka as a nationalist but she was in the Flemish side of Belgium and it is obvious that the Flemish have a very clear national cultural policy. I mean it’s very good to invite Slovene, Turkish people in Flanders because they are far away. But there is no cultural cooperation among those communities living in the same country. Just it was a general observation on the fact that the other is much more appraised when it’s very far.
Mahir NAMUR- Thank you very much to all the speakers. The time is out. Before you leave I would like to remind you that there’s an artistic program this evening as usual. So at 18:30 there will be short films from Euro-Turkish filmmakers in the Cinema Hall, it will be the repetition of what has been done yesterday. Yesterday there was a small problem in the Cinema Hall. So, the film of Gülden Durmaz was interrupted, we are sorry for that, but it will be repeated tonight. And after the short films, there will be performances of the artists; İlyas Odman, Laboratuar, Çıplak Ayaklar, Aydın Teker, Emre Koyuncuoğlu, Çiğdem Borucu, Dilek Dervişoğlu, Su Güneş Mıhladız, Sevgi Algan, Fulya Tekin. Have a nice evening. Thank you very much to all the guests again.
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